Suggestions, Comments & Problems: Cubes making me go to the people and shit

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Poll Question: You like the idea or not?
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    Posted: 07 August 2017 at 9:48pm
So I was chatting to the underbOss of these here parts

And I had a thought

Borne partially out the fact I like boxing

Also outta the fact I like battling

And also outta the fact the member status names besides newbie vet and mod are just terrible...(those being, 'groupie', 'standard member' and 'superior member')







So









My proposal was new categories and belts for certain categories (the ones in bold):
  • Newbie: 0-19 or 49pts or whatever it now...nothing changes, no belt
  • 1 Star: 20 or 50 pts to 499 pts
  • 2 star: 500 pts to 999 pts
  • 3 Star: 1,000 pts to 1,999 pts
  • 4 Star: 2,000 pts and up
  • Vet: nothing changes, no belt
  • Mod (senior or whatever they called): nothing changes, no belt
Take a look and see what category you'd fall in...

In a nutshell, it's not massively different to the current setup - just there is one extra category created which separates people at a slightly higher level, and we lose the current names...

(I kept the names just to the stars for simplicity, but you could try like bronze silver gold plat, lightweight middleweight cruiserweight heavyweight...whatever...anything is better than Groupie/Standard Member/Superior Member)

Now in terms of the belts...I had in mind text battling logically, tho it can apply to anything if there are enough eligible contenders...and topical activity is big on the site...but anyway

In this scenario, the main text title still exists and anyone can hold it or challenge for it as is currently the case. So you could conceivably hold two of them at once

But if you pass from one category to the next while holding a belt, you vacate it

Pros:
  1. Creates more competition at more levels (although obviously number of points/posts doesn't directly correlate to skill level, more often than not it does, so it's a new dynamic)
  2. Can add more stakes to the events like Bloodlines or whatever, and storylines to ya magazines and whatnot
  3. You could have mini/final 4 style tournaments per title, or even 8s where you have enough people
  4. It doesn't take masses of work to change the way the groups are structured on the site
Cons:
  1. The HOF would need to be updated more regularly, you'd presume
  2. And you'd have to keep an eye on when people pass certain thresholds if they are still holding a title (i.e. if they go from a 2 to a 3 or a 3 to a 4)... Shouldn't be that tough to do. With a bit of smarts, you could probably find a way that mods are alerted when it happens or something, but that sounds like too much effort








So...









I'm not sure Cubes is sold. And knowing scooter like a brother as I do, he probably won't be sold either. But I was told to put it to the people...so I have. I dunno what margin of poll victory/enthusiasm/exclamation points used will be sufficient to get the regime to go along with it but hey...vOte up and let's see what happens. Ask if not clear on anything...

(Vote yes so Cuba scooter and the mods gotta do more shit)

(If I've just wasted my time writing this shit there will be blOOd...)
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Neek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 August 2017 at 9:52pm
I like it, keeps people battling in their 'league' so to speak. none of this newbie killer of the week shit. bravo sir.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote -Orion- Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 August 2017 at 9:55pm
Tbf I don't think it means you can't battle outta your 'weight'...I didn't specify that part...it just means there's more incentive/rivalry to battle within your weight

You can't retract your Yes now tho... I want the regime to know I got one up on them already
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Rutter knows best Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 August 2017 at 10:00pm
I like the idea. If it could squeeze any enthusiasm from the members that would be great. Apart from like you said it making chatty patty's sound like they are able to fight. I suppose the formula of this working is enthusiasm of the members divided by how much work goes into it for scoot. It would be great if you could do it based off record, but with topicals and stuff that just complicates it
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Neek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 August 2017 at 10:00pm
I know you aint been around for awhile, but you should know..my modsquad homies got no problems deleting threads. #ModCorruption.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote -Orion- Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 August 2017 at 10:11pm
Yeah it is interesting doing it by records...

I'm not sure how much topicals are the issue there, I would say more that:
  1. It would be more work for the scootmeister, as he'd have to code that from scratch, whereas an infrastructure already exists to add/delete member groups as much as you want very easily (fun side fact: I originally found LA because I ran one of these exact boards - not a rap/battling one but the same software - and I was Googling for more skins and came across LA...had never heard of online battling before)
  2. The brackets would have to be pretty close together, because amongst active battlers, the records are all quite close together really, barring some major outliers
  3. Therefore the closer together you make the brackets, the fluctuation from weight to weight would prob be too much
Hence this way, while not quite as cool from an ideal perspective, makes much more sense practically I think

Anyway I count that as two yesses, plus my yes

Bringing down the regime
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote DjFlame Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 August 2017 at 10:16pm
I don't think posts is a good enough metric for this. There are a lot of people with less posts around here that are clearly great writers. Some homies are listed as Superior members but are only.decent. It works both ways. I've lost twice as many as I've won, but I'd be a 3-star in your system.

A little common sense or going off battle records would be better imo. If you asled around about the best topical heads and text heads, everyone would have roughly the same top 10. Surely they could be ranked like that, a la Spit for Rank. Initially it would be a lot of work to rank everyone like that but I feel like it would be more accurate.

I do like the concept of giving noobs something to work for tho. I think it's better than the current system, but not optimal.

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote -Orion- Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 August 2017 at 10:24pm
@Flame

I get the idea behind doing it off battle records - and that would be better - but for the reasons listed above, I don't think it works on LA. Partly because of the development work that would have to go into it and partly because in pure data terms, the battle record on this site are a mixture of ridiculously disparate (me, Frank White) to ridiculously close together

So my take is...why not significantly improve it if you can?

And I don't personally think it's worth over-thinking battles vs posts. I agree battles would be better, but we all know the battle rankings aren't fully representative either, and there's nothing wrong with a little disparity in weight classes... to continue the boxing analogy, your weight class doesn't define your calibre - the greatest boxers in the world right now are middleweights... And to switch to a basketball analogy... you could (albeit not often) come in as a rookie or sophomore in the NBA and be an All-Star...equally you'll have journeymen been in the league 10 years and nowhere near the class of a rookie but they're still a veteran. I think there's still a logic to it. The stars reward site activity/loyalty (like they do already) but also create extra layers of competition. It's not supposed to create a ranking system...the battle rankings are the ranking system
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Crimson Juice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 August 2017 at 10:26pm
OK,well i'm a mod and i've voted yes,i remember when i first came here i was posting
like a mad man to get rid of that ridiculous groupie tag,although in truth i'm 90% to this
idea,the draw back for me is the creating of a club/stay in your lane vibe that comes
with it,i don't like putting ppl in categories it's very English,but I get the reasoning it
carry's,plus in truth me personally i would go that extra mile updating stats whatever
it takes to make my LA better i would do, (for Rut's and Co,after a walk through that is..lol..private joke)..peace.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote -Orion- Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 August 2017 at 10:32pm
Thanks for your thoguhts. I see what you mean about categorising people, but I don't think it's any different than current setup in that regard, except the belts...and remember while THOSE belts might be 'exclusive' to that weight class (aka the club), the main text title can be held by and challenged for by anyone (as remains the case currently)...so if somebody shit hot joins the site and wins their first 10 battles but has only posted 60 times but challenges for the main text title, presuming the title holder says yes, then it's a battle, even tho at that stage they'd be 1 star

I think it has the benefits of the 'club' mentality (more competition, activity) without the downside of segregation

Anyway, keep 'em coming
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote The Law Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 August 2017 at 3:10am
I don't have time at the moment to really look into it and give my feedback on it. 
But definitely an A+ idea. I'll give it thorough look over and add input when I get a min to do it. 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Sky Scrapur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 August 2017 at 8:18pm
It's a 'yes' from me.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Cuba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 August 2017 at 10:01pm
If there's interest in any idea I'm willing to try it...think we've shown we're prepared to give ideas a chance and keep the ones which work & we axe the ones which don't.

We just need to give some thought to the star rankinga and what the thresholds would be & what would the new names be. I know this idea started in boxing but not sure I'm fully bought into calling people "lightweights" when they first come through the door as it just doesn't feel like the right message.

Obviously groupie is probably worse still, but yeah, in principle I like the idea. In practice we've always tried to limit the belts as there isn't a great deal of competition for them anyway. I would be interested how we think we'd create more battles under these banners.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote DjFlame Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 August 2017 at 10:59pm
Cruiserweights doesn't have as bad of an implication.

@O. Your NBA analogy makes a whole lot of sense, but I think it's a bit of a weird mixture of arbitrary and hierarchial. Hierarchial because you would assume that someone with a high post count would be a better writer, but arbitrary because post count isn't always indicative of skill level, like we mentioned before. The two routes we could choose IMO are either fully hierarchial (spit for rank, proposed below) or fully arbitrary (randomly grouping people into four groups) The problem with battle records, however, is not everyone has the same amount of battles under their belt. AshleyKaos is likely better than Battler X, who has one battle but lost it, but under the battle ranking system battler X may be a higher ranking.

I don't know how it was perceived during its conception, but a Spit for Rank type system for rankings would be the best method. Elect a panel of seven to judge a submitted verse, the first 3 on the panel to vote on it determine the users rank. Like I mentioned above, skill is pretty objective. We would all say that Self, Sammy, Nigma, etc. Are excellent writers, while people like "Battler X" need some work. Imo, this is better than the post system because it more closely correlates to skill, and the only sample size you need is one verse, unlike the battling record method. If I drop a fire Open Mic, maybe the committee could review it to determine my ranking.

Furthermore, there are more possibilities with this. Beans is a great battle, but should he be grouped with the topical "heavyweights?" Judging from his limited selection of Open Mics, no. He doesn't have enough development in that area.

I don't want this system to fail, because it is better than the current system we have. I hope nobody interprets my criticism as a reason to diminish the prospects of this one.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote -Orion- Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 August 2017 at 12:40pm
I pushed for spit for rank here after seeing it in action on another forum

One of the reasons it didn't work here is because it coincided with a drop-off in activity in battling and activity amongst mods, whereas the place I saw it work was much more active than this

I do think it's a nice enough concept but I can see why it's not worth reinstating, for the same reasons it failed here the first time it was tried

I'm not saying either the boxing or NBA analogies are right on the money - there's no perfect analogy really because what we're proposing is entirely different... There are just elements of the systems in those particular sports that you can look at

I get your logic behind being either totally systemised or totally arbitrary but I don't see post count as being totally arbitrary. It's not as optimal as spit for rank or by battle record, but those are both impractical due to the nature of LA.

So on post count: ultimately, it's what we want out of people (more posts, more loyal/returning members) and so encouraging progression in that nature is one thing, and encouraging a level of progression in your skill level along the way is a nice complement to that. Some people like Kay B have the most posts here, aren't the best battler or even close, and don't care whatsoever, and that's OK. Not everyone has to conform, or get involved, it's just a nice added layer to bring about all the pros I mentioned in my first post

@Cubes - I see what you mean about the names which is why if it was up to me I wouldn't overthink it at all and just let the stars do the talking by themselves.

So there are levels that come with a title (newbie, vet, mod) and then there are just star levels by points/posts. Don't need titles necessarily. Be weird at first maybe but you'd get used to it.

If anything the boxing and similar analogies are good to avoid if poss, as these would be membership groups first and foremost, with a side benefit of being battling levels...but yeah stars wins for me. 1 Star champ, 2 Star title match, vacated the 3 star title, undisputed 4 star and text title champ...

...one thing is with these separate titles, the main one might need a slightly jazzier name. 'World' text champ? 'Ultimate' text champ? Suggestions on a postcard




Nice to see the idea being scrutinised but generally being voted for

Be good to hear from more people
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote hanGing Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 August 2017 at 6:18pm
Didn't we have this before to some degree - Mainly terribly ran and biased (I was put in the mid tier - cunts)..

If done right - it'll work.

I'd add more - but I'm sure I have a yearly word limit.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote DjFlame Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 August 2017 at 6:54pm
Originally posted by hanGing hanGing wrote:

Didn't we have this before to some degree - Mainly terribly ran and biased (I was put in the mid tier - cunts)..

If done right - it'll work.

I'd add more - but I'm sure I have a yearly word limit.


O's plan was based on an objective metric: post counts.

If you're referring to my plan, it is biased in the same manner that voting on here is biased. If you weren't a fan of long bar, you may not think someone's worthy of highest rank. If you like comedy bars over hard disses or vice versa. Hell, Let's Beef values multis over punches. Tons of styles that could be hated by one judge and loved by another. Just part of it.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Cuba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 August 2017 at 12:00am
So I thought of an idea off the back of this...

We have 5 star groups.

5 stars = Veterans/Mods
4 stars = Street Team
1-3 stars = Minions

Here's my idea. We change the 4 star group to a "heavyweights" or "most feared" type group. We have a vote on who should go in, with limited places available and then you can only challenge for the main titles (i.e. all we have today, possibly minus Battle Royale and/or Tag) if you are in that group.

You can get in that group by EITHER winning a tournament or event (e.g. 1-2 punch league, OM King) OR by calling out that guy for a battle & winning. If a person turns down or avoids 3 challenges (for any battle) they vacate their position.

We could then create a "cruiserweight" belt that can be won by people in the 1/2/3 star groups...but the catch is, you can challenge for that belt in ANY format. In other words, it ain't a straight battle belt or a topical belt it's anything you want it to be.

We could call it the Iron Man belt. And if you want to go into the 4 star group you have to vacate.

We could even do a Topical Twist style battle league where the more you battle the more points you get & have a bigger claim to a Iron Man challenge if/when it gets vacated.

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