Elevation Centre: Rhyme scheme consistency

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
DynamicHaste View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie


Joined: 04 October 2014
Status: Offline
Points: 133
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote DynamicHaste Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Rhyme scheme consistency
    Posted: 17 October 2015 at 9:38pm
Hi there guys I wondered if someone could take the time to explain something to me...

I have been using 'Open Mic' for a bit and I am not understanding the 'rhyme scheme' comments I have been receiving on my open mics particularly on 'Rhyme scheme consistency. I mean does a rhyme scheme have to be consistent ? Here is the piece I put in the open mic....


Fuck impossible sensational thoughts run unstoppable
to the last decimal down to my surviving molecules
And you dickheads just thought that I was fucking down and out?
I was underground growing testicles with tentacles....
but now the monsters out it's hardly diabolical
I was a pussy in life till I turned to a fucking wrecking ball
turned so quick I could Strike a mother fucking lightning bolt
at frightening volts, that caused my enemies to do somersaults
Success is only a stones throw away...
so use a VIKING CATAPAULT and blast every fucking obstacle
I wasn't dead I just had to go through a metamorphesis
and now my words can murder I got you hangin' on every sylabal
Felt so empowered by the powder of becoming famous
But starting from now I ain't rollin' cos the fucking game is rigged
everybody now step up and smash that tower to the ground
Just be yourself let no one come and mess or come fuck around

I mean to me the rhyme scheme was unpredictable but could someone go into more detail and explain this? I noticed I have had these rhyme scheme comments for a while and would just really love to smash this sticking point. God bless.

Dynamic







Edited by DynamicHaste - 17 October 2015 at 9:45pm
Back to Top
The Rap Daemon View Drop Down
Standard Member
Standard Member


Joined: 05 August 2015
Location: Purgatory
Status: Offline
Points: 1108

Text Rank: Unranked
Stats: 6-14-0
Form: LWLWWL
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote The Rap Daemon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 October 2015 at 10:04pm
Originally posted by X-CaLiBuR X-CaLiBuR wrote:

RHYME SCHEMES

a rhyme scheme is basically like a blueprint for your writtens or freestyles for that matter. Its all about where your rhyming words are that make this important. Cuz where you rhyme in your lines drastically dictates how your flow will sound.

the "x" represents filler words that pertain to the line but doesnot rhyme

the CAPPED letters such as "A" "B" "C" "D "E" represent your rhyming words.

examples.) Ex. 1) xxxxxx xxxxxA xxxxxx xxxxxA

Ex. 1a) "one day I plan to see amongst all of this, smoke and the ashes to be a part of this hip hop when you, hopelessly gassed kid"

this is a fairly simple rhyme scheme, the end of each bar is what rhymes. basic, but a good start.

Ex. 2) xxxxxA xxxxxB xxxxxA xxxxxB

Ex. 2a) "I try to see the light but Its seems to me it's dimmin and every time i try to do whats right I end up sinnin"

notice the words "light" and "right" approx. in the middle of each bar. that adds an internal rhyme scheme to this.. this is a little more advanced but not hard to get the hang of once you get crackin at it. as well as you have the original end words rhyming..

Ex. 3)

xxAxxx xxxxxA xxAxxx xxxxxA

Ex. 3a) "I'm tired of wakin-up, havin ta take-the-bus sick a not makin-bucks, an bein... flat on my face-wit-luck"

this takes a little more practice and as you get better with multisyllable rhyming you will find this scheme alot easier.

Ex. 4)

A B C D E A B C D E

Ex. 4a)

" I spray fools like grafitti with my nouns and verbs and stay cool like tahitti smokin pounds of herb"

that one there takes a long time to master and follow through on a whole verse like that, and you rarely see it done for anylonger than a few lines.. but it is quite a nice addition to a verse mos def.


Those are specific rhyme schemes, and to be consistent means choosing one and keeping to it and not "falling off". Sure, you can add a twist to it by changing the rhyme scheme towards the end, or in a new verse, etc., etc., but making sure it's not all over the place and un-worked on is key. Be sure to check out all the Rap Tutorials for other forms of help to help you improve in other ways you may feel you need to work on.
Back to Top
DynamicHaste View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie


Joined: 04 October 2014
Status: Offline
Points: 133
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote DynamicHaste Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 October 2015 at 10:12pm
Thank you for your response !

But why can't you fall off a rhyme scheme ? I hate sticking to certain structures I just like the creativity of switching it up and breaking up rhyme schemes ?
Back to Top
alicewonder View Drop Down
Standard Member
Standard Member


Joined: 09 May 2015
Location: uk
Status: Offline
Points: 653
Crew: Kratos Kind

Text Rank: Unranked
Stats: 2-1-2
Form: WWLNN
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote alicewonder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 October 2015 at 10:51pm
To "fall off" rhyme schemes basically means that you shouldn't throw in any patterns that are contrasty to your "previous" pattern. Of course switching schemes is a beneficial thing to do to support the excitement of your verse, but only if you do the transition from one scheme to the other smoothly. 

For example, what I take from your first bar is that you start off with an end rhyme, which is nice when you want to focus more on the content. But then, especially towards the middle, you "fall off" as you try to employ some internals not matching the end rhyme, which is in itself a different technique, but you miss the "timing" with the "frightening/viking" part:

at frightening volts, that caused my enemies to do somersaults
Success is only a stones throw away...
so use a VIKING CATAPAULT and blast every fucking obstacle

as Daemon already quoted above under 3a, it's more of an advanced scheme, and the good execution of that relies on the matter of practice. So definitely keep at it!
Back to Top
Sky Scrapur View Drop Down
Standard Member
Standard Member
Avatar

Joined: 21 October 2014
Status: Offline
Points: 1133
Crew: Lyricist Inc.

Audio Rank: Unranked
Stats: 0-1-0
Form: L
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Sky Scrapur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 October 2015 at 10:51pm
There's a lot of confusion with text rapping. Once you grab the mic? It's a different story.

I can go 8 lines with the same rhyme scheme then switch to another for the next 8lines.

I can switch after every 4lines depending on how i feel. It's all about being sensitive to how music builds up and sometimes it's safe to switch the scheme soon after you reach the peak.

The thing is you'll always get critiques even on you greatest hit. People are people and they have different perspectives but since most emphasised on the rhyme scheme it might be that you are quickly switching the scheme before it fully ends.

If you rap your lyrics out loud, record and listen to them you'll realise where the flow/scheme is prematurely ending.

It's the same when someone reads them here in text form, they can detect the faults but it's tricky because of our various accents. So if they critised your Audio then do something man but if it's text? Just ignore and move forward.
Back to Top
The Rap Daemon View Drop Down
Standard Member
Standard Member


Joined: 05 August 2015
Location: Purgatory
Status: Offline
Points: 1108

Text Rank: Unranked
Stats: 6-14-0
Form: LWLWWL
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote The Rap Daemon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 October 2015 at 10:52pm
Originally posted by DynamicHaste DynamicHaste wrote:


Thank you for your response !

But why can't you fall off a rhyme scheme ? I hate sticking to certain structures I just like the creativity of switching it up and breaking up rhyme schemes ?


For topicals, an inconsistent rhyme scheme with rhymes in random places makes the piece look like a rushed freestyle with not much time put into it.

At the end of the day, what you do with your pieces is up to you, but for audience preference, a solid, well-structured and nicely thought of consistent rhyme scheme is generally liked. Just a tip!

But also, Sky is right with what he says.
Back to Top
Senor Perfecto View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar
1st Battle Winner! AM I 'ECK

Joined: 18 October 2003
Location: Manchester
Status: Offline
Points: 3272
Crew: XFade: Phoenix

Text Rank: #6
Stats: 66-36-2
Form: WLWLWL
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Senor Perfecto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 October 2015 at 12:50am
DynamicHaste... I have not read any of your Open Mics nor any of the comments regarding your rhyme-scheme before...  But based on this verse... the rhyme-scheme does not follow the set text-pattern of matching your couplets and counting your syllables precisely...  But fuck the rules... seriously...  Just understand what sounds good or not and what message you are trying to convey...  The rules are guidelines to help us get started...  After that... you have to find your own style...  You can have perfectly-matching, complex rhymes but still a shit flow...

The metamorphesis (sic)-line seemed forced was forced but I loved the switch in style and the message of the verse...  Rhymes were forced but the flow was great...  As you say, unpredictable... which does not mean bad...

Originally posted by DynamicHaste DynamicHaste wrote:

Just be yourself let no one come and mess or come fuck around

¡Inspirational...!

Adios...
Back to Top
Hueyman View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie
Avatar

Joined: 22 January 2014
Location: no way
Status: Offline
Points: 148

Text Rank: Unranked
Stats: 0-6-1
Form: LLLLLL
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Hueyman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 February 2016 at 1:00am
This is Good.


Back to Top
Ryze View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie
Avatar

Joined: 17 February 2016
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 62
Crew: Alter Egos
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Ryze Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 February 2016 at 6:09pm
I'm not a fan of text battling or text open mics because the reader will never read it how you wrote it. Better to lay those bars down on audio and show everyone what you wanted it to sound like. As for rhyme schemes there are loads of different schemes, hell you can even make your own up as long as its got structure then who cares if you're not using a already tried and tested rhyme scheme. Keep up what you're doing as what i read there was some impressive lines.
Back to Top
Neek View Drop Down
Site Moderator
Site Moderator
Avatar
Super Mario Slaughterer

Joined: 05 October 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 3862

Text Rank: Unranked
Stats: 3-1-0
Form: LWWW
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Neek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 February 2016 at 6:37pm
Originally posted by Ryze Ryze wrote:

I'm not a fan of text battling or text open mics because the reader will never read it how you wrote it.


thats some of the most ignorant shit ive ever read.


rhyme scheme *is* flow.

breath control determines what you can get away with during word placement

but rhyme scheme is entirely the backbone of flow, so as long as youre not brain dead, you can definitely tell a flow from rhyme scheme alone.


apples are red, oranges be orange
microphone murdered, performance is born
yada yada yada, something get yours
that thing this that and the other recourse

has a very apparent flow.


but if I do


when I walk to the mall sometime my feet get tired. im still having a ball I think ill drink this rewired to get a little boost and help me through this long day.


this lacks a scheme, but rhymes and *can* carry a flow but still could use a better scheme to showcase the said flow. it has no intertwined rhymes to smooth out the transition or any clear path.

I can flow both in audio fine, one reads like a champ in text. the other? not so much.


audios are lyrics first. delivery and presence and all that shit is a learned skill, that takes times. lyrics are the foundation. thats how you 'build'

to tell someome fuck learning to crawl, just run yo ass to the store isnt very helpful.
#Bananas
Back to Top
Ryze View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie
Avatar

Joined: 17 February 2016
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 62
Crew: Alter Egos
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Ryze Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 February 2016 at 6:50pm
Originally posted by Neek Neek wrote:

Originally posted by Ryze Ryze wrote:

I'm not a fan of text battling or text open mics because the reader will never read it how you wrote it.


thats some of the most ignorant shit ive ever read.



Ignorant?
How we read the text wont be how he wrote it? Everyone has different accents so if he's American i'd read it differently, or he might of wrote it with a fast flow in his head then a reader reads it back slow so it wont be how he wrote it. People read these texts in their own flow and not in the flow of the writer, that's all i'm saying.
Thats my opinion anyways. I favour audio for that reason but doesnt make me think people who prefer text rhymes to be ignorant.


Edited by Ryze - 18 February 2016 at 6:56pm
Back to Top
Neek View Drop Down
Site Moderator
Site Moderator
Avatar
Super Mario Slaughterer

Joined: 05 October 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 3862

Text Rank: Unranked
Stats: 3-1-0
Form: LWWW
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Neek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 February 2016 at 6:55pm
its fair to have an opinion.

but its ignorant to assume nobody can do something because you cant. im sure there are several cats here who could spit someone elses shit, perhaps acapella as beat choice varies, but once you 'find the flow' as your argument of 'speed'... whats the problem?

and figuring out how a guy got barter and limping to rhyme doesnt change the the flow. the rhytmnic pattern is still there.

thats what I meant by ignorant. you assumed because you cant grasp something that is was merely impossible. thats by definition, ignorant.


having an opinion is not ignorant.
#Bananas
Back to Top
Ryze View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie
Avatar

Joined: 17 February 2016
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 62
Crew: Alter Egos
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Ryze Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 February 2016 at 7:03pm
Originally posted by Neek Neek wrote:

its fair to have an opinion.

but its ignorant to assume nobody can do something because you cant. im sure there are several cats here who could spit someone elses shit, perhaps acapella as beat choice varies, but once you 'find the flow' as your argument of 'speed'... whats the problem?

and figuring out how a guy got barter and limping to rhyme doesnt change the the flow. the rhytmnic pattern is still there.

thats what I meant by ignorant. you assumed because you cant grasp something that is was merely impossible. thats by definition, ignorant.


having an opinion is not ignorant.


I haven't mentioned anything about not doing something because i can't. I'm giving him support about rhyme scheme, encouraging him that there doesn't have to be a set rhyme scheme. Anyone can create their own rhyme scheme without following these ready made blue prints. It's all about flow which i agree and what i was saying was the flow he had in his head writing the lyrics could be read by someone with a different flow but because its a different flow might not sound good to them but shit hot in the flow he wrote them with.

Not here to disagree with anyone just showing a fellow User some support.


EDIT: BY "doesn't need a set rhyme scheme" i mean a well know rhyme scheme, referring to he can make his own as long as it's got structure like i mentioned in my first reply.



Edited by Ryze - 18 February 2016 at 7:08pm
Back to Top
Neek View Drop Down
Site Moderator
Site Moderator
Avatar
Super Mario Slaughterer

Joined: 05 October 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 3862

Text Rank: Unranked
Stats: 3-1-0
Form: LWWW
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Neek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 February 2016 at 7:10pm
the whole basis of your point was, 'what if they have a different accent, what if they dont catch the speed in your flow, what if...' all based on you.

you put a generalized statement out, based on your opinion.

its cool to encourage, thats what its about. but to assume someone cant figure out a flow because you cant (what I quoted in my initial post) doesnt mean it rings true.
#Bananas
Back to Top
Venomonology View Drop Down
Standard Member
Standard Member
Avatar

Joined: 23 October 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 674

Text Rank: Unranked
Stats: 9-2-0
Form: WWLWWW
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Venomonology Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 February 2016 at 7:13pm
Disagreement isn't a bad thing, don't worry about that. Good discussions can arise out of disagreements on stuff. As long as things don't get heated / personal it's all good.

Ryze you have a point in the sense that I can't control how other people read the text verses I drop, whereas that's obviously not a problem if I were to drop it as an audio. Neek is right, though, in the sense that there are ways you can structure a text verse to highlight a particular rhythm and tempo. Lots of compact, single syllable internals will always 'flow' faster to a reader than something that has longer lines and multisyllabic internals, etc. There are techniques you can develop and use in text to get what you want across. And even then, if someone doesn't read it exactly how you wrote it.. it's not that big of a deal as long as they're still feeling that it flows well generally.

Similar to when audio heads drop verses and some of the words are hard to make out because of the speed they are delivered or the accent of the person manipulating how a word is said. Audio has it's drawbacks too to an extent, which is why there are so many lyrics sites out there because people want to be able to see the lyrics written down in text, to find out exactly what is said or to study the meanings / patterns, etc. of them.

I think what came across as maybe a little ignorant is you saying "I'm not a fan of text because..." I'm sure you didn't mean it this way, but it comes off as a little dismissive. The lessons you can learn from text at a young age (some members here are in high school) can provide a solid foundation which you can experiment with and play with as you grow and develop a fuller understanding of the art. It's not that certain structures are the absolute best way of doing something, it's just laying a foundation for creativity.
Back to Top
Ryze View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie
Avatar

Joined: 17 February 2016
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 62
Crew: Alter Egos
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Ryze Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 February 2016 at 7:17pm
Originally posted by Neek Neek wrote:

the whole basis of your point was, 'what if they have a different accent, what if they dont catch the speed in your flow, what if...' all based on you.

you put a generalized statement out, based on your opinion.

its cool to encourage, thats what its about. but to assume someone cant figure out a flow because you cant (what I quoted in my initial post) doesnt mean it rings true.


lol i feel like this is a big misunderstanding. I think he does have rhyme scheme anyways. Was encouraging him to keep at it and not let it effect his material.
Back to Top
Ryze View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie
Avatar

Joined: 17 February 2016
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 62
Crew: Alter Egos
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Ryze Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 February 2016 at 7:22pm
Originally posted by Venomonology Venomonology wrote:

Disagreement isn't a bad thing, don't worry about that. Good discussions can arise out of disagreements on stuff. As long as things don't get heated / personal it's all good.

Ryze you have a point in the sense that I can't control how other people read the text verses I drop, whereas that's obviously not a problem if I were to drop it as an audio. Neek is right, though, in the sense that there are ways you can structure a text verse to highlight a particular rhythm and tempo. Lots of compact, single syllable internals will always 'flow' faster to a reader than something that has longer lines and multisyllabic internals, etc. There are techniques you can develop and use in text to get what you want across. And even then, if someone doesn't read it exactly how you wrote it.. it's not that big of a deal as long as they're still feeling that it flows well generally.

Similar to when audio heads drop verses and some of the words are hard to make out because of the speed they are delivered or the accent of the person manipulating how a word is said. Audio has it's drawbacks too to an extent, which is why there are so many lyrics sites out there because people want to be able to see the lyrics written down in text, to find out exactly what is said or to study the meanings / patterns, etc. of them.

I think what came across as maybe a little ignorant is you saying "I'm not a fan of text because..." I'm sure you didn't mean it this way, but it comes off as a little dismissive. The lessons you can learn from text at a young age (some members here are in high school) can provide a solid foundation which you can experiment with and play with as you grow and develop a fuller understanding of the art. It's not that certain structures are the absolute best way of doing something, it's just laying a foundation for creativity.


Nicely put. I believe Neeks right in his argument but what i said wasn't how it was read (see what i did there). And me saying i'm not a fan just means i favour audio over text but i still read text as much as i'll listen to audio. Sorry for the wrong impression or making myself ignorant. Maybe i didn't word it as well as i should have.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down